dvb123
12-03 07:48 AM
10/31/2008: PERM Filing Alert for IT Occupations and Certain Professional Occupations
When the permanent labor certification system used DOT system, there were a number of IT occupations that fell under SVP 8. When the DOL changed the permanent labor certification system, it abandoned DOT system which focused on SVP concept. Since then OFLC has been using O*Net Job Zone concept and applied Job Zone 4 as equivalent to SVP 7 that can require from two years to maximum four years of preparation time (education, training, and experience). The Job Zone 5 is practically equivalent to SVP 8 that can require from four years to 10 years of preparation time (education, training, and experience). During the DOT era which ended on March 27, 2005, some IT occupations fell under SVP 7 and some IT occupations fell under SVP 8. Accordingly, EB-2 labor certifications for IT occupations were filed and approved when the occupations fell under SVP 8. Software Engineer, DBA, Science/Engineering Application Programmer, etc. illustrate these IT occupations.
When the O*Net Job Zones replaced the DOT, the system downgraded all the IT occupations into Job Zone 4 except Computer Information and System Manager occupation (IT Manager) which remained at Job Zone 5. Since all the IT occupations other than IT manager belonged to the Job Zone 4, had the DOL strictly adhered to Job Zone system as they interpreted, any applications for IT occupations that required more than a bachelor's degree plus two years of experience should have faced a business necessity challenge and denials in most of such applications. However, from March 28, 2005 until June 2007, the DOL de facto adhered to their previous practice under the DOT system and most of the EB-2 IT occupations such as Software Engineer, DBA, etc., which belonged to SVP 8 under DOT system, have been approved without much challenge.
The landscape changed beginning from July 2007 when they started focusing on the integrity of labor certification system. The agency started challenging such EB-2 requirement even for the SVP 8 IT occupations under DOT if it belonged to the Job Zone 4. The challenge took a form of "audit." Such EB-2 requirements have faced a massive challenge and audits. However, the former SVP 8 IT cases have been approved after the audits in a large number of cases. This practice is expected to change once the new form ETA 9089 PERM application program is launched next year since the new form will automatically consider such EB-2 requirement for IT occupations as the business necessity cases for exceeding the Job Zone 4 requirement. Initinally, DOL was scheduled to launch the new ETA 9089 form beginning from January 1, 2009, but luckily they pushed off the starting date to late Spring of 2009. That was a good news.
Bad news is a further change in O*Net Job Zone for IT manager occupations. They just changed the O*Net data into version 13.0 which down graded IT manager job zone from 5 to 4! The last vestige of Job Zone 5 in IT occupations has been cruelly crushed to death. Since EB-2 occupation must require either a master's degree or Bachelor's degree plus five years of progressive experience, now all the IT occupations exceed the Job Zone 4 allowed preparation time. We will have to wait and see how this change in Job Zone for IT manager occupation will be managed in actual adjudication of PERM applications hereon, but it is certainly not a positive news.
The recent downgrading of professional occupations from Job Zone 5 to Job 4 does not end with the IT occupations. There are a number of professional occupations that have been downgraded practically to nonprofessional occupations in some cases. Company General Manager is downgraded to Job Zone 3!! Employers who start PERM recruitment should review the attached Job Zone changes and seek legal advice. Believe me, there are a lot of surprises.
When the permanent labor certification system used DOT system, there were a number of IT occupations that fell under SVP 8. When the DOL changed the permanent labor certification system, it abandoned DOT system which focused on SVP concept. Since then OFLC has been using O*Net Job Zone concept and applied Job Zone 4 as equivalent to SVP 7 that can require from two years to maximum four years of preparation time (education, training, and experience). The Job Zone 5 is practically equivalent to SVP 8 that can require from four years to 10 years of preparation time (education, training, and experience). During the DOT era which ended on March 27, 2005, some IT occupations fell under SVP 7 and some IT occupations fell under SVP 8. Accordingly, EB-2 labor certifications for IT occupations were filed and approved when the occupations fell under SVP 8. Software Engineer, DBA, Science/Engineering Application Programmer, etc. illustrate these IT occupations.
When the O*Net Job Zones replaced the DOT, the system downgraded all the IT occupations into Job Zone 4 except Computer Information and System Manager occupation (IT Manager) which remained at Job Zone 5. Since all the IT occupations other than IT manager belonged to the Job Zone 4, had the DOL strictly adhered to Job Zone system as they interpreted, any applications for IT occupations that required more than a bachelor's degree plus two years of experience should have faced a business necessity challenge and denials in most of such applications. However, from March 28, 2005 until June 2007, the DOL de facto adhered to their previous practice under the DOT system and most of the EB-2 IT occupations such as Software Engineer, DBA, etc., which belonged to SVP 8 under DOT system, have been approved without much challenge.
The landscape changed beginning from July 2007 when they started focusing on the integrity of labor certification system. The agency started challenging such EB-2 requirement even for the SVP 8 IT occupations under DOT if it belonged to the Job Zone 4. The challenge took a form of "audit." Such EB-2 requirements have faced a massive challenge and audits. However, the former SVP 8 IT cases have been approved after the audits in a large number of cases. This practice is expected to change once the new form ETA 9089 PERM application program is launched next year since the new form will automatically consider such EB-2 requirement for IT occupations as the business necessity cases for exceeding the Job Zone 4 requirement. Initinally, DOL was scheduled to launch the new ETA 9089 form beginning from January 1, 2009, but luckily they pushed off the starting date to late Spring of 2009. That was a good news.
Bad news is a further change in O*Net Job Zone for IT manager occupations. They just changed the O*Net data into version 13.0 which down graded IT manager job zone from 5 to 4! The last vestige of Job Zone 5 in IT occupations has been cruelly crushed to death. Since EB-2 occupation must require either a master's degree or Bachelor's degree plus five years of progressive experience, now all the IT occupations exceed the Job Zone 4 allowed preparation time. We will have to wait and see how this change in Job Zone for IT manager occupation will be managed in actual adjudication of PERM applications hereon, but it is certainly not a positive news.
The recent downgrading of professional occupations from Job Zone 5 to Job 4 does not end with the IT occupations. There are a number of professional occupations that have been downgraded practically to nonprofessional occupations in some cases. Company General Manager is downgraded to Job Zone 3!! Employers who start PERM recruitment should review the attached Job Zone changes and seek legal advice. Believe me, there are a lot of surprises.
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jayleno
09-19 01:27 PM
Friends,
Those who have US citizen kids Vs Those who dont
Let us fight :D:D:D
Those who have US citizen kids Vs Those who dont
Let us fight :D:D:D
sidm
05-31 12:25 PM
I have been banned too - simply because I raised the cause of international students and IV's duplicity in its stance, and that makes some GC-greedy members paranoid. :D
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EkAurAaya
07-11 02:23 PM
No is the correct answer.. they are here as visitors (not residents - US tax returns are for US residents - tax return 101)
also they don't have SS# i presume, so how can you even think about adding them as dependents?
Good try though :)
also they don't have SS# i presume, so how can you even think about adding them as dependents?
Good try though :)
more...
gc4me
02-11 01:48 PM
Guys/Gals,
Please predict about eb3 ROW movement as well.
When do you think it will move to 2004 APR?
Please predict about eb3 ROW movement as well.
When do you think it will move to 2004 APR?
nk2006
03-16 02:25 PM
All right points above - we dont need to try too hard to prove our (IV's) original objectives and ideals. If they (antis or others with questionable motives here) are really interested they can go thru the website. Being anonymous web forums, site will attract different types of users and some noise may be almost unavoidable. Having said that we might need some more active moderation - as the IV's popularity increases the website is bound to attract more diverse groups of users with newer agendas. Moderation by only core group of people is obviously time consuming to them (going thru different threads and sometimes even following what is being discussed). I am not sure if IV already has this but can we have a basic user reporting type system - wherein we can have a high level sticky thread requesting users to report any abuses/violations of IV terms - users can post report any voilations they came across in the site - core group and maybe a group of more volunteers dedicated to just concentrate on forum content can go thru this sticky thread on a regular basis and decide. Currently we do have a reputation mechanism and PM to core but its cumbersome. There could be false/improper complaints in the user reporting system as well but atleast core/web-forum-volunteers only have to go thru fewer threads.
more...
newtoearth
07-12 09:17 AM
Carl Shusterman says that State Department's Charles Oppenheimer indicating that there will big advances for EB2 China & India. Hopefully it is true
Immigration Attorneys, Schedule a Legal Consultation with Former INS Trial Attorney Carl Shusterman (http://www.shusterman.com/)
GOD bless you dude for this news...
I have been hoping for EAD at least and I can happly wait for 2-3 years for my GC
if the dates are current I and my fellow non EAD holders at least can file for EAD...
Immigration Attorneys, Schedule a Legal Consultation with Former INS Trial Attorney Carl Shusterman (http://www.shusterman.com/)
GOD bless you dude for this news...
I have been hoping for EAD at least and I can happly wait for 2-3 years for my GC
if the dates are current I and my fellow non EAD holders at least can file for EAD...
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beppenyc
05-28 10:06 AM
I will not be good in english (en fact with the new bill i am in trouble....) but as european i can tell what is the real situation in europe is different of what Communique says. I have lived in French, for more than one year, and the problem was that the French has take the communique version on the immigration, means under class of citizen. That`s the real problem. It`s funny that nobody speaks about what happens in England, where they decided for a full integration or in Spain, or even in Nederland, no riots down there, how is possible?
more...
abh
08-11 02:17 PM
Thanks all for the replies.
Here are more details.
My receipt no. is starting with WAC. I had already got transfer notice in September 2007 about getting transferred to NSC as they have juridiction over my case.
Thanks
Here are more details.
My receipt no. is starting with WAC. I had already got transfer notice in September 2007 about getting transferred to NSC as they have juridiction over my case.
Thanks
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zj142
07-10 09:25 PM
It would be a smart choice to accept those application, but based on USCIS recent behaviors, I really doubt their decision makers have that intelligence to make such a smart choice.
more...
alp_waj
11-07 11:10 AM
Hi guyz,
Bit of addtional information that might be just what was needed to make final call.
I spoke to Fragomen, my Law firm, and they informed me that priority date for filing I 45 (Green Card last stage) is current for Labor applications (EB3) filed in April 2001 and unless something dramatic happens again, things will move at its own pace.
My Labor (in EB3) was filed in March 2003. Estimated time to get GC might be anywhere between 1 year to ... who knows....
I am leaning towards resigning and start it fresh.. wherever...even If it is US fresh H1 will always be there.
Thanks for your help and advises
Regards,
Alp
Bit of addtional information that might be just what was needed to make final call.
I spoke to Fragomen, my Law firm, and they informed me that priority date for filing I 45 (Green Card last stage) is current for Labor applications (EB3) filed in April 2001 and unless something dramatic happens again, things will move at its own pace.
My Labor (in EB3) was filed in March 2003. Estimated time to get GC might be anywhere between 1 year to ... who knows....
I am leaning towards resigning and start it fresh.. wherever...even If it is US fresh H1 will always be there.
Thanks for your help and advises
Regards,
Alp
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Macaca
01-25 08:54 PM
Assume the following worst case.
1. We create an authentic database of member payments.
2. All non-paying members are unhappy and/or leave.
Let us have a civil and focussed debate on the following strongly related questions.
1. What is the utility of a non-paying member?
2. What is lost if a non-paying member leaves?
1. We create an authentic database of member payments.
2. All non-paying members are unhappy and/or leave.
Let us have a civil and focussed debate on the following strongly related questions.
1. What is the utility of a non-paying member?
2. What is lost if a non-paying member leaves?
more...
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bluekayal
02-23 05:35 PM
I wrote a letter with I-485 copy and said we were no where near current, and got the 1 yr EAD replaced with a 2-year one :)
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sdrblr
09-11 01:05 PM
imagine having that on ur back.. and then you go to a beach in france/middle east.
You would totally get shot at.
I would pick France any day over middle east :)
You would totally get shot at.
I would pick France any day over middle east :)
more...
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test101
10-05 01:18 PM
how do you know if your name is in name check? or stuck in name check ?
is there a phone number to check if a person has been cleared or not?
thanks.
is there a phone number to check if a person has been cleared or not?
thanks.
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need_EAD
05-24 12:40 PM
done
more...
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snathan
04-06 08:46 PM
Thank you thomachan72.
Sure I will. I have no application pending.
If you are an immigrant what�s your status...Tell us more about you.
If not, what�s the purpose of you are visiting IV. Just teach about the scam?
The ICE, USCIS and DOL are there and very much capable to take care these scams. So if you have any information about the fraud...contact those authorities. We don�t have anything to do with that. Otherwise please get lost.
Sure I will. I have no application pending.
If you are an immigrant what�s your status...Tell us more about you.
If not, what�s the purpose of you are visiting IV. Just teach about the scam?
The ICE, USCIS and DOL are there and very much capable to take care these scams. So if you have any information about the fraud...contact those authorities. We don�t have anything to do with that. Otherwise please get lost.
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tonyHK12
05-09 10:17 AM
For them there are strict check at airports.
Hope so, but the cases of AP being refused entry are extremely rare. You'll have a hard time finding them on forums. while 80% of consulting company H1bs may get 221g, it could be less than 1% of AP holders who face issues.
Hope so, but the cases of AP being refused entry are extremely rare. You'll have a hard time finding them on forums. while 80% of consulting company H1bs may get 221g, it could be less than 1% of AP holders who face issues.
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new_horizon
08-20 10:35 AM
Does anyone in the IV core have any comment on this? Pls do express. Thanks.
ram_nara303
09-11 03:19 PM
Gave a green for the detailed process of a bill becoming a law.
invincibleasian
02-05 09:19 AM
Please explain what is student status and 221g. You mean , if you are student of any intitute in US, while your I-140 is approved?
I was here on F1 first and then converted o H1. I went for a H1 stamping after about 5years. Student status refers to the status of the F1 visa. They usually track it using SEVIS. My bad luck since SEVIS was not up that day or my name was not showing up since I was a pre sevis grad enrollment. 221g is a document they hand out if they cannot issue a visa due to lack of documents or need to no further administrative processing like verify employer/status on a visa etc. You need to either appear again before the consulate or they get back to your later. My case was a nightmare and I dont plan to ever go back again to India period. Guys do your research on the web regarding 221g do travel plans accordingly!
I was here on F1 first and then converted o H1. I went for a H1 stamping after about 5years. Student status refers to the status of the F1 visa. They usually track it using SEVIS. My bad luck since SEVIS was not up that day or my name was not showing up since I was a pre sevis grad enrollment. 221g is a document they hand out if they cannot issue a visa due to lack of documents or need to no further administrative processing like verify employer/status on a visa etc. You need to either appear again before the consulate or they get back to your later. My case was a nightmare and I dont plan to ever go back again to India period. Guys do your research on the web regarding 221g do travel plans accordingly!